Mike
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Posts: 79
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Post by Mike on Nov 30, 2009 12:31:53 GMT -5
Big Ben at best is the 4th best QB in the league...but at the same time he's not on the level Manning and Brady are on. I could understand a debate wit Brees simply because Brees passes the ball a whole lot and Ben's team is a big run type team. I'm thinking.... 1.Manning 2.Brady 3.Brees 4.Ben 5.Farve After that IMO there's a huge drop in QB play. Not that the other ones aren't good but they're pretty much not on a different level like those. I guess u can try and slide who Romo in there after Brett?  |
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Post by styro on Nov 30, 2009 12:38:57 GMT -5
don't patriots have Matt Light?
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 12:39:21 GMT -5
That same year he lead the league in TD passes didn't they miss the playoffs? I know they didn't win no more than 10 games and it's not like Troy Brown was a terrible WR that still doesn't take away the fact that it's the system that makes players better. Look at the Steelers, look at all the "no-names" that the Steelers have had on their squad especially at the LB position who the majority did nothing in their careers until joining the Steelers. Look, I'm not saying Brady is a terrible QB because he's not anyone who puts up 50 TDs in a single season obviously has some talent but I would love to see what Brady could do on different team with a spotty O-Line and a crap WR corp. He's only been named All-Pro twice so a lot of people seem to share the same sentiment as mine. and no you can not say the same for every QB that "it's the system." Brett Favre is an example, up until the injury he was the sole reason the Jets were on a roll and he was playing fantastic. Now look what he's doing in Minnesota. Joe Montana is another QB when he went to KC from SF while not putting up career record numbers he still put up serviceable numbers despite being what 37 38 years old? I would rather have a Manning, Brees, Rodgers or even Rivers on my team before Brady. Since 2004 only 4 QB's have been "All-Pro", those four are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Brett Favre. Joe Montana is actually the definition of a system QB. Bill Walsh created the greatest offensive system ever. Was Montana a great QB, absolutely, but he also thrived due to the system he was in. You would like to see what he could do with a crap WR core? Did you just not watch football until 2007? He never had a true #1 WR until Randy Moss. Troy Brown and Deion Branch are serviceable WR's but they would have a tough time cracking the top 3 of any truly good team. Outside of Baltimore can you name me a Super Bowl winning team in the past 10 years with shittier WR's than the Patriots. He doesn't get sacked as much as say Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers is because he doesn't hold onto the ball or scramble around. His offensive line is also NOT that good. They're solid, but if you watch them every week it's not like he has all day to throw. Obviously the line is not bad by any means, but it's not like he has any truly great lineman. I just don't see any way you can say over the last 5-7 years there has been any QB, with the exception of Peyton Manning, that has been better than Tom Brady. but Joe Montana played outside the Bill Walsh system and was successful leading KC to two straight playoff appearances if I am correct before retiring. I mean Cassell had one of the best seasons any QB could ever dream of, do you consider him to be on the same level as a Brady? Brady has no arm.. most of his passes are short 4-5 yarders that someone like Welker turns into bigger plays and the big yard plays 9 times out of 10 is Randy Moss just out playing his defender or a huge missed defensive assignment. It's never Brady threading the ball into double coverage and putting the ball where only his WR can get it. I think Brady is like at the bottom of the all time list for YPC. He can't play from behind he just doesn't have the skill set of a Manning or a Rodgers or a Rivers to have their team down 14 points and come back. I forget what year it was but didn't the Broncos pick Brady like 3 or 4 times in the playoffs when New England was down? and there is no coincidence that Brady's best statistical years are coming AFTER Randy Moss joined the team. |
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Post by styro on Nov 30, 2009 12:40:50 GMT -5
Your making Brady sound like a scrub.
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 12:44:08 GMT -5
I never siad that.. I said he's a good QB but certainly not top 5
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Post by njnetsindizbitch on Nov 30, 2009 12:55:51 GMT -5
Big Ben at best is the 4th best QB in the league...but at the same time he's not on the level Manning and Brady are on. I could understand a debate wit Brees simply because Brees passes the ball a whole lot and Ben's team is a big run type team. I'm thinking.... 1.Manning 2.Brady 3.Brees 4.Ben 5.Farve After that IMO there's a huge drop in QB play. Not that the other ones aren't good but they're pretty much not on a different level like those. I guess u can try and slide who Romo in there after Brett? Fuck you...it's called a web board so i'll pretty much post what I want to. Just like I want to tell you to stop sucking my balls. |
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Post by travesy3 on Nov 30, 2009 13:16:45 GMT -5
roflwaffles
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Maniac
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Ex-GM
Posts: 7,739
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Post by Maniac on Nov 30, 2009 13:27:59 GMT -5
What has Drew Brees accomplish in his career? NOTHING. What has fucking whiny ass homo Rivers accomplished in his career? NOTHING. What has Carson Palmer accomplished? NOTHING. Aaron Rodgers? Hahhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahahaha.
Fact: You like QB ratings? Sure. Ben has a 90.8 career QB rating. That's one of the top QB ratings among active QB's. Not bad for a QB playing in a system that largely was predicated on running the ball until the past year or two.
Fact: He's one of the most accurate QB's among those currently active - his career completion percentage 63.4%. His yards-per-attempt is pretty sick as well at nearly 8 yards a completion for his career - he doesn't dump it off all game.
Fact: He's won two Super Bowls. That's like the ultimate trump-card for all you fucking morons saying he isn't an 'elite' QB. He has great career statistics, has won two Super Bowls, and is JUST NOW entering his prime. He's 27. A 27-year -old, statistically efficient, extremely strong and mobile, two-time Super Bowl Champion QB? Right. Nothing good there!
Fact: He is, without a doubt, the most elusive QB in the league, meaning he's definitely the hardest to bring down. If you try and arm tackle Ben you'll fail. Miserably. He's the best QB in the league when scrambling. Plus, he's a master of the play-action pass. Look at the stat ESPN showed last night - Ben has a PERFECT QB rating off of the play-action pass - he only has two incomplete passes the ENTIRE season. When Ben gets out of the pocket and extends the play he is so very dangerous and he is definitely the best QB in the league at extending the play.
Fact: He has the most wins of any QB in NFL history through his first five seasons. He wins. It's that simple. Elite QB's win games. It may not always be pretty, but the QB comes up in the clutch when necessary. He was the youngest starting QB to win a Super Bowl.
Fact: He is, without a doubt, one of the top two or three most clutch QB's in the league today. He's far more of a clutch player than Rivers, Brees, Rodgers, or any other fuck you toss out there not named Brady or Manning. He has had 20 game winning comeback drives in the fourth quarter or overtime, one of which was in the Super Bowl. And Marty, how is that drive not just as elite as the Manning drive in the prior Super Bowl? Haha. The drive started off with a holding penalty. That backed the Steelers up even more. Ben didn't panic - he drove the team down the field and delivered a crazy good throw to set up one of the best catches the league has seen. Again, nothing special there. Regardless, when it comes down to Ben, the fourth quarter, and the game on the line he is going to win it more often than not.
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I could go on all day. He's shattering the Steelers record books. He's having a wonderful season this year and was on pace for over 4,000 yards before missing this past game. 17 TD's to 10 INT's is a perfectly fine ratio. He's the lynch-pin of this offense and of this team. Not an elite QB? Get the fuck out of here. I'd, without a doubt, take Ben over Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, or whoever else. He's on par with Manning and Brady.
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Maniac
Senior Member
Ex-GM
Posts: 7,739
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Post by Maniac on Nov 30, 2009 13:35:02 GMT -5
I'm not even going to respond to any counter-posts. You're all wrong. Except Ashes. And he's a smart man.
I win. You lose. GAME OVER BITCHES.
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Mike
New Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Mike on Nov 30, 2009 13:41:27 GMT -5
I'm not even going to respond to any counter-posts. You're all wrong. Except Ashes. And he's a smart man. I win. You lose. GAME OVER BITCHES. lol If you put Rivers or Brees on the Steelers they would have won at least 3 ships by now because they don't get sacked or throw interceptions nearly as much. |
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Post by travesy3 on Nov 30, 2009 13:44:38 GMT -5
U MAD?
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Mike
New Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Mike on Nov 30, 2009 13:44:38 GMT -5
I'm not saying Ben isn't a great QB, but Brees, Rivers, Manning, Brady > Big Ben.
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Mike
New Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Mike on Nov 30, 2009 13:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by njnetsindizbitch on Nov 30, 2009 13:47:11 GMT -5
If you put one player here if you put one player there...man who cares about all that. System QB or not a fucking system doesn't help you put passes on the money and get out the pocket and all that good stuff. Brett is shittin on the Vikings and the system they used...the same exact system where Tavaris couldn't do shit. You either a good QB or not IMO who cares about the system. Sure it matters if you have certain players around you and if your a run heavy or pass heavy team, but when it comes down to it it's the QB and his skills fuck a system.
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Post by njnetsindizbitch on Nov 30, 2009 13:48:09 GMT -5
lmfao, funny thing is i just watched this battle like two days ago where da dude said that and caught a mean right to his face after it. |
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