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Post by ashes on Nov 30, 2009 11:04:59 GMT -5
I'm not even going to read the 2nd page because of that absurd notion that Big Ben isn't on the level of the top tier guys. As much I hate the Steelers, even I can't say something so ridiculous. The fact that you think he's as good as Brady or Manning pretty much discounts your opinion. Yeah, anyone can play that game, champ. Doesn't make you cool. The fact that you think he isn't a top tier QB pretty much discounts your opinion. DAMN. Both of our opinions have been discounted! |
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Post by Jeff on Nov 30, 2009 11:08:42 GMT -5
Brady is overrated in my eyes. Look what Matt Cassell did last season and look what he's doing this season. Brady is a good QB but he's a product of the system. I mean look at his weapons to Randy Moss and Wes Welker? No one even talks about Randy Moss all that much anymore and he still puts up monster numbers year after year. and I'm sorry but Eli Manning and the NY Giants drive with that ridiculous Steve Smith catch was and is probably one of the most dramatic drives in Superbowl history. Roethlisberger is another overrated QB. You're right he is overrated. He also didn't lead the NFL in TD passes with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as his primary options. Every QB is a product of their system, that's a stupid argument. Cassel had a good year last year, but Brady had the single greatest season of any NFL QB ever. The seasons aren't even comparable. His entire career he had shitty WR's and average RB's to work with and has still managed to put up great numbers. |
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Post by Jeff on Nov 30, 2009 11:09:13 GMT -5
The fact that you think he's as good as Brady or Manning pretty much discounts your opinion. Yeah, anyone can play that game, champ. Doesn't make you cool. The fact that you think he isn't a top tier QB pretty much discounts your opinion. DAMN. Both of our opinions have been discounted! I said he wasn't on the level of Manning, Brady, or Brees. That's the top tier. He's not on that level. |
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 11:18:26 GMT -5
Brady is overrated in my eyes. Look what Matt Cassell did last season and look what he's doing this season. Brady is a good QB but he's a product of the system. I mean look at his weapons to Randy Moss and Wes Welker? No one even talks about Randy Moss all that much anymore and he still puts up monster numbers year after year. and I'm sorry but Eli Manning and the NY Giants drive with that ridiculous Steve Smith catch was and is probably one of the most dramatic drives in Superbowl history. Roethlisberger is another overrated QB. You're right he is overrated. He also didn't lead the NFL in TD passes with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as his primary options. Every QB is a product of their system, that's a stupid argument. Cassel had a good year last year, but Brady had the single greatest season of any NFL QB ever. The seasons aren't even comparable. His entire career he had shitty WR's and average RB's to work with and has still managed to put up great numbers. That same year he lead the league in TD passes didn't they miss the playoffs? I know they didn't win no more than 10 games and it's not like Troy Brown was a terrible WR that still doesn't take away the fact that it's the system that makes players better. Look at the Steelers, look at all the "no-names" that the Steelers have had on their squad especially at the LB position who the majority did nothing in their careers until joining the Steelers. Look, I'm not saying Brady is a terrible QB because he's not anyone who puts up 50 TDs in a single season obviously has some talent but I would love to see what Brady could do on different team with a spotty O-Line and a crap WR corp. He's only been named All-Pro twice so a lot of people seem to share the same sentiment as mine. and no you can not say the same for every QB that "it's the system." Brett Favre is an example, up until the injury he was the sole reason the Jets were on a roll and he was playing fantastic. Now look what he's doing in Minnesota. Joe Montana is another QB when he went to KC from SF while not putting up career record numbers he still put up serviceable numbers despite being what 37 38 years old? I would rather have a Manning, Brees, Rodgers or even Rivers on my team before Brady. |
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Post by njnetsindizbitch on Nov 30, 2009 11:20:09 GMT -5
Big Ben at best is the 4th best QB in the league...but at the same time he's not on the level Manning and Brady are on. I could understand a debate wit Brees simply because Brees passes the ball a whole lot and Ben's team is a big run type team. I'm thinking....
1.Manning
2.Brady
3.Brees
4.Ben
5.Farve
After that IMO there's a huge drop in QB play. Not that the other ones aren't good but they're pretty much not on a different level like those. I guess u can try and slide who Romo in there after Brett?
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 11:21:15 GMT -5
lol at Romo even being considered as a top 10 QB
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Post by ashes on Nov 30, 2009 11:30:25 GMT -5
Haven't seen anyone misspell Favre in awhile.
Also, just going to throw this out there: Big Ben's been sacked AT LEAST twice as much as Brady, Manning, and Brees, maybe even three times as much. The others have benefited from excellent OLines, Brees a little less than the others, but still much better than the Steelers. This is a huge factor, in my opinion, and Ben still manages to lead his team to success.
This is probably why Rodgers is also one of the best QBs in the league. Can't imagine how good he'd be with a competent OLine. Unless maybe he likes getting hit and it fires him up!
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 11:36:39 GMT -5
Haven't seen anyone misspell Favre in awhile. Also, just going to throw this out there: Big Ben's been sacked AT LEAST twice as much as Brady, Manning, and Brees, maybe even three times as much. The others have benefited from excellent OLines, Brees a little less than the others, but still much better than the Steelers. This is a huge factor, in my opinion, and Ben still manages to lead his team to success. This is probably why Rodgers is also one of the best QBs in the league. Can't imagine how good he'd be with a competent OLine. Unless maybe he likes getting hit and it fires him up! also look at all of Brady's passes.. they are all dink and dunk passes. He is always at the bottom of the league in Yards per completion his best year was something stupid like 8 ypc. He is a system QB plain and simple. Manning is the #1 QB. The Superbowl win was all him and the offense as the defense was atrocious. Indy has never had good defenses and it's Manning's game management ability that has led them to the success they have had. Now with a semi-decent defense this year, look what they can do. |
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Post by ashes on Nov 30, 2009 11:45:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it should be universal that Manning is the #1 QB. As a Texans fan, I watch him take the field way too fucking much and he's just surgical. Against any team I see him play against, I have the utmost confidence in him getting the job done and scoring, more so than any other QB, and he usually does. When you're rooting for the opposing team, it's like, you just hope they get ahead first and keep scoring, because every time Manning touches the ball you're like, "Fuck the Colts are going to score..."
And they usually do.
I still hate him though.
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Post by styro on Nov 30, 2009 11:47:59 GMT -5
Aaron Rodgers FTW!!!!!!!!!
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Post by styro on Nov 30, 2009 11:50:21 GMT -5
1. Peyton Manning
2. Drew Brees
3. Tom Brady
4. Brett Favre
5. Phillip Rivers
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Aaron Rodgers
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Post by Martinez on Nov 30, 2009 11:52:00 GMT -5
1. Peyton Manning 2. Drew Brees 3. Tom Brady 4. Brett Favre 5. Phillip Rivers 6. Ben Roethlisberger 7. Aaron Rodgers 1. Peyton Manning 2. Drew Brees 3. Brett Favre 4. Aaron Rodgers 5. Philip Rivers 6. Tom Brady 7. Matt Schaub |
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Post by styro on Nov 30, 2009 11:54:07 GMT -5
1. Peyton Manning 2. Drew Brees 3. Tom Brady 4. Brett Favre 5. Phillip Rivers 6. Ben Roethlisberger 7. Aaron Rodgers 1. Peyton Manning 2. Drew Brees 3. Brett Favre 4. Aaron Rodgers 5. Philip Rivers 6. Tom Brady 7. Matt Schaub close enough. Aaron Rodgers is nice though. |
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Post by njnetsindizbitch on Nov 30, 2009 11:54:56 GMT -5
Rivers over Ben and Aaron yea right.
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Post by Jeff on Nov 30, 2009 12:28:30 GMT -5
You're right he is overrated. He also didn't lead the NFL in TD passes with Troy Brown and Deion Branch as his primary options. Every QB is a product of their system, that's a stupid argument. Cassel had a good year last year, but Brady had the single greatest season of any NFL QB ever. The seasons aren't even comparable. His entire career he had shitty WR's and average RB's to work with and has still managed to put up great numbers. That same year he lead the league in TD passes didn't they miss the playoffs? I know they didn't win no more than 10 games and it's not like Troy Brown was a terrible WR that still doesn't take away the fact that it's the system that makes players better. Look at the Steelers, look at all the "no-names" that the Steelers have had on their squad especially at the LB position who the majority did nothing in their careers until joining the Steelers. Look, I'm not saying Brady is a terrible QB because he's not anyone who puts up 50 TDs in a single season obviously has some talent but I would love to see what Brady could do on different team with a spotty O-Line and a crap WR corp. He's only been named All-Pro twice so a lot of people seem to share the same sentiment as mine. and no you can not say the same for every QB that "it's the system." Brett Favre is an example, up until the injury he was the sole reason the Jets were on a roll and he was playing fantastic. Now look what he's doing in Minnesota. Joe Montana is another QB when he went to KC from SF while not putting up career record numbers he still put up serviceable numbers despite being what 37 38 years old? I would rather have a Manning, Brees, Rodgers or even Rivers on my team before Brady. Since 2004 only 4 QB's have been "All-Pro", those four are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Brett Favre. Joe Montana is actually the definition of a system QB. Bill Walsh created the greatest offensive system ever. Was Montana a great QB, absolutely, but he also thrived due to the system he was in. You would like to see what he could do with a crap WR core? Did you just not watch football until 2007? He never had a true #1 WR until Randy Moss. Troy Brown and Deion Branch are serviceable WR's but they would have a tough time cracking the top 3 of any truly good team. Outside of Baltimore can you name me a Super Bowl winning team in the past 10 years with shittier WR's than the Patriots. He doesn't get sacked as much as say Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers is because he doesn't hold onto the ball or scramble around. His offensive line is also NOT that good. They're solid, but if you watch them every week it's not like he has all day to throw. Obviously the line is not bad by any means, but it's not like he has any truly great lineman. I just don't see any way you can say over the last 5-7 years there has been any QB, with the exception of Peyton Manning, that has been better than Tom Brady. |
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